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Julie Littlechild:       
Welcome to another episode of Becoming Referable, the podcast that helps you be the kind of advisor people can’t stop talking about. I’m Julie Littlechild, and on this week’s show, Steve and I were excited to speak with Evelyn Zohlen. Evelyn is the founder of Inspired Financial, which is a fee only wealth management practice that specializes in serving women in transition in Southern California. We talk at length about what that means, and get deep into how she’s built a business that truly serves and supports this target, and we talk at length about how she has successfully built a strong referral network among centers of influence because she’s so focused.

Evelyn is very actively involved in supporting the industry, has more energy for giving back than I’ve seen in many people. She served on the Board of Directors of the Financial Planning Association, she was an adjunct professor in the Personal Financial Planning Program at the University of California at Irvine, and serves on their Advisory Board for the Center for Investment and Wealth Management. But that’s not enough. She’s a community leader who currently serves on the Board of Governors for the Center Club in Orange County, and in the past on the Board of Directors for WomanSage. And I still find it incredibly cool that she served as an intelligence officer in the United States Air Force. With that, let’s get on with the show.

So Evelyn, welcome, I am just so excited to talk to you today.

Evelyn Zohlen:
Thank you, I’m really glad to be here.

Julie Littlechild:
Steve and I, I know, have both talked to you about your business and what you’ve done generally but also in this area of niche marketing. So, it was an easy thing for us to come to a conclusion that we really wanted to talk to you about this because it’s really impressive. But maybe I can just start with this concept of niche. This is clearly a significant part of your business and your success. Maybe you can give us a little background on your business and describe the clients that you’re working with today.

Evelyn Zohlen:
Sure. Inspired Financial is a boutique wealth management firm and in our profession, of course, that’s all code for different things. Boutique means that we’re of modest size. We’re about $135 million in assets under management as part of our wealth management services. When we say wealth management for us that means that we’re doing comprehensive deep dive financial planning for all of our clients and that we have relationships with them and their other professional advisors in support of our clients’ goals. We have a team of six professionals here at Inspired Financial. There are four on our planning team and then we have two operations/client services folks that help take good care of our clients. And those clients that I keep mentioning are a pretty unique group, they are predominantly women in transition. And that is the niche that we focus on serving. And when we made the decision to focus on serving women in transition, it’s been, oh boy, almost ten years ago now, we thought initially that would be widows and divorcees. And it’s true that that is still the vast majority of new clients that come to us. But after having focused on taking care of these ladies and their families for all of these years, we’ve decided that women are pretty much always in transition. And those transitions take a lot of different forms. The two obvious are the divorce and loss of a spouse, but losing both parents, selling a small business, and a lot in the last few years of what we have dubbed late life involuntary career changes. I’m sure you get that scenario, what that is, is a woman she’s in her late 50’s, she’s been a successful career woman and is in senior management or even in a C level position at a company that is merged, downsizing, no longer needs her services. She’s offered a severance package and is told ‘thank you for your work all these years and buh-bye, and now she is left with that question of am I going to be ok, which is the foundation of a lot of these women in transition. What they’re concerned about is ‘am I going to be ok.’ And we’re pleased that we’re able to answer that.

Steve Wershing:
Are there things that tie those three groups together? Because on the surface there are certainly things that certainly make them different but are there things that tie them together as well?

Evelyn Zohlen:
That’s a great question. And we’re asked a lot about the whole ‘really, women in transition, does that mean you won’t work with anybody else?’ The primary driver is in fact, is it a woman? And secondly, is she going through a significant change in her life that warrants a trusted advisor to come alongside her and help educate and empower her so she can make good decisions about navigating this transition and coming out stronger than she ever thought she could on the other side. Having said all of that, these women, sometimes their transitions don’t include getting rid of or having lost a spouse. So we’ll tease that if she happens to show up with a husband, dad, brother or uncle in tow, we’re not going to kick him to the curb.

Julie Littlechild:
You’re not going to ask them to leave?

Evelyn Zohlen:
No, he doesn’t have to sit in the car while we’re having our meeting. So long as she says so he is welcome to be part of this. But all teasing aside, we have found that we are most successful with working with women and their partners where the woman is a primary decision maker, or at least a 50% decision maker and her financial choices and everything that we do at Inspired Financial is geared toward that woman and how she likes to communicate.

Now, Steve you asked a great question. Because you know as soon as you put a stake in the ground and claim a niche, ‘this is where I’m going to focus’, you know the next 8 people through the door are not going to be that niche. It’s just kind of the way Murphy’s Law works. One thing that we did that was powerful in helping us address that question in advance rather than leaving it to be sort of an on the fly by the seat of our pants decision in the moment, is we created an ideal client profile at the same time that we made a decision to focus on this niche. And that ideal client profile is literally a couple of dozen items, consider it almost like a checklist of things that describe our ideal client. Of course, she does not exist, this is like an amalgamation of what she would look like. And it’s based on several of our existing clients. But what’s really useful about this is that when the exceptions come, and they will, that you are making an informed decision that is based on criteria that you’ve had in place perhaps for years. It ensures that even if they’re not exactly ideal, they’re going to be close enough within the framework of what is ideal, that you’re not going to be moving outside your zone and sabotaging your processes, your communications, and your team’s precious time.

Julie Littlechild:
Can I pick up on that quickly, did you have any deal breakers in that, so you’ve got your ideal client profile, but are there absolutely things where you’ll say no this just isn’t right for us?

Evelyn Zohlen:
Oh yeah, absolutely, absolutely we do. And interestingly, gender isn’t one of them. And we actually brought on our first man in transition a few years ago. It was a serious enough decision that we actually physically hauled out the ideal client profile. We all sat around as a team with the paper copy of this profile and kind of went through it together, and determined that he was a close enough fit that we went ahead and brought him on board and he’s still a great client for us today, but there are deal breakers for us. For example, somebody that’s not interested in a collaborative relationship, not a good fit for us. Somebody whose lead when they come to us is tell me about the latest investment recommendation you made for your clients, not a good fit for us. It’s obviously not that we’re not making investment recommendations for our clients, but it’s not ‘the latest’. The latest is a red flag for us that this is somebody that’s not taking a long-term goals-based view to this relationship and that’s just not going to be a fit for us, so there are a handful of deal breakers for us.

Steve Wershing:
Do you distinguish, Evelyn, between things that you talk about in public as being aspects of that ideal client, and separate things like you just mentioned as acceptance criteria or do you talk about all of those at once?

Evelyn Zohlen:
It’s not as if we have this ideal client profile posted on our website, and say if you don’t fit, need not apply. It’s something, rather, that we hold internally as part of our culture and as part of our prospecting efforts. And I anticipate that during our conversation today we’ll ultimately chat about once you select the niche how do you prospect, how do you market to this niche. But for us it’s something that we do share with our referral sources, whether those are clients or centers of influence. But you have a good point that if one of my criteria is that she has to have a purpose in her life beyond herself, and for us that means that we want somebody that’s interested in contributing to their community. That may be something that’s important to us but is not necessarily something that we’re going to lead with.

Steve Wershing:
But I hear a lot of advisors say things like ‘we want to work with delegators’, not that I’m a real big fan of things like that necessarily. But I could see that that might complicate things if you’re talking to a center of influence especially. They could spot somebody who’s in transition, they could spot somebody who’s not sure about the decisions that are being thrust upon them. But they may not have a sense of, you know, is this a good collaborator, is this a good… that’s why I ask that.

Evelyn Zohlen:
It’s a great question, and if I was having that conversation, say with a divorce attorney. We receive a lot of referrals from divorce attorneys and the way I would actually describe that for us in the business – we know what we mean when we say a good collaborator, a good delegator. Rather, when I was talking with that divorce attorney I would say ‘we’re looking for somebody that you think has been a good partner with you. If they have been a good partner in their professional work with you they would be a good partner for us as well. And an attorney, particularly a divorce attorney, is going to know what that means, because they need their clients to be good delegators and good collaborators. So there are ways that you can craft that messaging without tossing a word that is jargon or lingo to us in the financial planning profession.

Steve Wershing:
Julie let me ask one other thing and then I’ll let you talk. I apologize for jumping all over..

Julie Littlechild:
Thank you Steve, no carry on, carry on.

Steve Wershing:
Evelyn the other thing I wanted to ask about that was, besides developing the idea of a client profile, how much other planning or design work did you do about what you want to do with these folks before you committed to the niche? Did you develop the ideal client and say ok now we’re going to target this person, or did you take the design process further before you made that commitment?

Evelyn Zohlen:
I would describe it as a concurrent event because we didn’t start from zero, where we were sitting around thinking wow we should start a financial planning practice, ok, who do we want to serve and what do we want to do for them. We had an existing practice already. So, there are certainly some complexities that come into making a choice with an existing practice to narrow your focus down. So concurrently, at the same time as we were developing, naming the niche, identifying the ideal client profile, we were also identifying the service model that we would apply to those ideal clients, that niche. Then also, how are we going to communicate to them and how are we going to market to them? Now clearly that is a monstrous amount of work. That’s it, isn’t it? That’s everything that every planer wants to decide for the client and it’s not something that you tackle in a weekend retreat or something like that.

However, we identified, I’ll say, the low-hanging fruit, the easy things that you know right away are going to have to change. Something as simple as, we stopped putting the Wall Street Journal and Barron’s and Financial Times in our magazine rack out in the lobby, that’s ridiculous for a widow or a divorcee. They’re not interested in that, so get it out of there. That’s simple, that’s a very simple illustration, but it’s an example of things that we could do immediately. But at the same time knowing that we’ve got bigger work that needs to be done. So we didn’t wait till it was finished to focus on bringing in the niche.

Julie Littlechild:
One of the things I’ve noticed when people are successful with niche in particular is that it comes from a place of personal passion. So I’d love to know a bit about when you were thinking about the future of your business, why was this so real and so authentic for you? How did you know you could add such value?

Evelyn Zohlen:
Sure. It’s a great question, because if it doesn’t really resonate, if you really don’t get fired up about this particular niche then you really need to think hard about the focus on them. For me personally this was a two-fold process in landing on this niche. There was, I’ll call it, the purely business. And that is that we worked with a consultant, it was a year-long process. Like I was saying to Steven this is not something that happened over a long weekend. We spent literally a full year working on examining our existing client base, doing some segmentation regarding who do we enjoy working with, who did we cringe every time they call, and the listeners know exactly what I mean by that, what services did we enjoy providing, where did we feel like we were being fairly compensated for the work that we were doing. So there’s all this slicing and dicing, and there were some very clear groups that emerged from that. And interestingly, one of the groups that emerged that was part of our client base was a group of engineers and scientists, big left-brained folks. And another group that emerged from this were a group of women that either when they came to us they were going through a divorce or had recently been widowed, or during their time with us they had gotten divorced or become widowed. And there were reasons we liked working with them and didn’t, and but then you’re staring at these two groups and these are two clearly very different demographics there.

And then to your question, Julie, so what personally can make me think I would want to choose one of these vs. another and that is, for me, that is a personal question, because I have been divorced, not once but twice, which is always a little strange, hearing that, especially in this particular forum. But I think it’s relevant to this question because I’m a very smart woman. I’d like to think I’m independent, I’ve got a pretty good grip on my life in general. And yet, when I got divorced both times, I found myself in a really difficult financial situation afterward. And it’s not that I didn’t have my act together, but there was enough going in my life emotionally and personally that I didn’t focus on the financial end of it. And candidly, like many women, I had done a little bit of divide and conquer in my marriage and I was taking care of some things in my relationship and my spouse was taking care of other things. So at the conclusion of the marriage I found myself not as familiar with my finances as I would have wanted to be. And I’m a really smart woman and I’m in the business. At the end of the second marriage I was actually in the financial planning profession. Early, I feel compelled to defend myself a little bit…

Julie Littlechild:
No need, no need.

Evelyn Zohlen:
Early in the profession, only about a year at that point. And I thought, now fast forward several years, and now I’m looking at these two groups of demographics, trying to make a choice about focusing on a niche, it actually became pretty easy. Because I thought ‘it shouldn’t happen to anyone else.’ If I can come alongside a woman at a time when she is not able to really speak for herself, as confident in herself, and make sure that some comes out on the backside of this better than she thought she could, then it would have been a good day at work. So that’s how all of that connected. It wasn’t just a purely emotional personal thing, but there was definitely that overlay on top of the more methodical business approach to this.

Steve Wershing: And I think it also brings up an important point about personal story. You are not the first advisor to say to me ‘I went through this in my life and I thought to myself, boy if I’m in the business and this happened to me, then what about these other folks who don’t have the benefit of my training and background?’ And that ends up being a really powerful ‘why’, a really powerful reason for working with that target market.

Evelyn Zohlen:
Right.

Steve Wershing:
Evelyn, how do you market to women in transition and make your business a magnet for those kinds of folks?

Evelyn Zohlen:
It was kind of interesting, when we made the decision to focus on this niche, that we assumed, or we thought, that most of our clients would be coming from referrals from existing clients, because in the past that had been where the majority of clients had come from. We would do an analysis about every two years and found that about three quarters of our clients were coming from referrals from existing clients. And interestingly, over the years that we’ve been focusing on this niche, we have found almost 180-degree reversal from that, in that the vast majority of our referrals are coming from centers of influence.

So, to the question of how do we market to women in transition, certainly we want to create an environment that is appealing to them, and I’ll talk more about that in just a second, but we are telling our message to a lot of centers of influence. This is the estate attorneys, divorce attorneys, this is CPA’s, this is career coaches and life coaches, because we all know and care about a woman who, when she went through a very difficult moment in her life, really could have benefitted from having somebody she trusts to guide her as she was making important financial decisions. That message resonates very clearly with these centers of influence, particularly because they’re approached by a lot of financial advisors and I’m putting that in air quotes, “financial advisors”, who would like to be referral sources from them. It’s difficult for them to distinguish when should they refer a prospective client to one particular advisor versus another, and the clarity of our messaging makes it very easy for them to know when to send a client or referral to us.

How we create a magnet here at Inspired Financial for these referrals is what I was mentioning earlier, is everything that we do, our processes, our systems, even how the office is configured and decorated, the words that we use when we’re communicating, make it very apparent that we have been thoughtful, mindful, about how we want to focus and serve these women in transition and that resonates with these centers of influence, as it does with these women. That gets to the other part of how we’re marketing to these ladies and their families…

Steve Wershing:
Evelyn, before you go on with that, I’d like to put a punctuation mark on that, because I think that’s really the key to the power of having a niche experience, is your ability to really stand out from other folks, and you’ve said something when you and I have spoken before, that I’ve repeated to a lot of people, because I think it’s so powerful. Because you’ve taken so much time and care to prepare this special kind of experience for people, you can credibly go to centers of influence and say, “Listen, we don’t want all of your clients. But if you have a woman who’s in this situation, we’re your firm.”

Evelyn Zohlen:
Right. We are the best. And you’re right, that those are words that I actually use, and they get that. They understand that. Attorneys are a perfect example. Attorneys do not try to practice all facets of law. An estate attorney is not going to try to do immigration law, they’re not trying to do tort or personal injury, their focusing on estate law, so they understand very clearly when I say, “We are the firm for this particular niche.” And, it shows in the numbers and the quality of referrals that we receive from our colleagues.

Steve Wershing:
It’s interesting, they make a really nice case study, because at least here in New York, an attorney is not allowed to say that they’re a specialist. They’re not allowed to hold themselves out as a specialist, so they have to figure out other ways of describing it, and inadvertently they sort of fell into the best way to describe a niche. Which is, “My practice focuses on…” and they go on to describe it, because they’re not allowed to say I’m a specialist in immigration, tax law, whatever, unless, I think, that they have a very specific specialty degree or designation or something like that. But it’s similar to how you describe what you say to attorneys.

Evelyn Zohlen:
It varies from state to state, because in California, they are. They are very clearly able to articulate what area of law they practice. And another good way of identifying that is, most state bars have board certifications for specialty areas in law, and so if somebody indicates that they are board certified in estate planning, that should ring a bell for a financial planner.

Steve Wershing:
My point was that attorneys are not usually thought of as gifted marketers, but at least here in New York, they’ve accidentally stumbled into compelling ways of describing their niche out of necessity. Anyway, that’s sort of beside the point.

Evelyn Zohlen:
I was just going to comment really quick that financial planners are not known as really gifted marketers, either, and can certainly use a page from the book of these attorneys in New York.

Steve Wershing:
Thank goodness, too, otherwise I wouldn’t have a job. So, you were talking about marketing generally beyond that when I so rudely interrupted you.

Evelyn Zohlen:
No, no, that’s okay. You brought up an excellent point. It needs to go beyond just raising your hand and saying, “I’m a specialist” and having good words, although I think that appropriate scripting and communication around your niche is essential. However, you need to walk the talk, so to speak, as well, and as I was mentioning, all of our systems or processes are configured to be appealing and comfortable and to resonate with these ladies and their families, in things as simple as the configuration of our office. And we, financial planners don’t think a lot about preparing what in your business is called collateral, the brochures, the one-page flyers and things like that. But going through the exercise of preparing a brochure, or a one-page summary of our services, or why we chose to focus on women in transition was actually very powerful, because it helped clarify in our own mind why we are particularly skilled at this, and why, from a personal, relational perspective, we chose to focus on this niche. But at the same time, it does actually help a lot with the scripting, if you will, or the communication, because being clear about who you serve and why you serve them is something that, if you are able to convey it with truth and passion and conviction, it resonates. And people see that and they remember it.

Steve Wershing:
Are there particular stories that you tell clients or centers of influence to help explain why you’re really good at that particular niche, or how you got into it?

Evelyn Zohlen:
Absolutely. If it’s appropriate, if it’s somebody I actually know a little better, I’ll share my own story, but beyond that, I have, sadly, a nearly endless stream of stories to relate around a woman who, when she got divorced, or when her husband died, ended up in a really bad situation because either she didn’t have help, or she had the wrong kind of help. And, back to my earlier comment, with my particular niche, unfortunately, we all know stories like that, whether it was our mom, that when our dad died she had no idea how to handle the finances, or when our sister divorced that bum she never should have married in the first place, she really could have used some help getting her life and securing that of her kids, in order. So, I think if you care and are truly interested in serving your niche, the stories come readily.

Now, back to my earlier conversation. Just because they come readily doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t be practiced, and be familiar and comfortable as you’re sharing with them.

Steve Wershing:
Thank you for making that point, and that’s one of the things that comes up a lot, is just recalling things off the top of your head and saying them is not the same as editing and refining and understanding how to make a point with somebody. So, thank you for mentioning that. Now do you take a story and specifically relate it to aspects of your niche experience or services that you provide?

Evelyn Zohlen:
Yes, there will be some tailoring around a particular service or facet of relationship, depending on what is the center of influence I am speaking with, or who is the woman that I am speaking with. Obviously, widows and estate attorneys warrant widow stories, whereas a family law attorney or divorcee would warrant divorce-related stories. So, you don’t want to have a single arrow in your quiver, so to speak, you want to have a library of stories. And again, it can’t sound contrived and slick, but rather familiar and passionate and caring, and that is what people remember.

Steve Wershing:
Exactly. Excellent points, great points. Once you’ve introduced yourself to a new center of influence and started to have that conversation, how do you maintain the relationship with that COI?

Evelyn Zohlen:
Isn’t this the trick for financial planners, thinking about our earlier conversation that we’re not exactly legendary for our marketing skills, but there’s a handful of things that I think we can do that are easy. One is that, if you have a shared client with this center of influence, you have an easy open door to stay in touch with them all the time, regarding the service that you’re providing for the client, questions that you would like to answer on behalf of the client, there’s a lot that you can do to stay in touch with centers of influence for existing clients. That needs to be cultivated. You can’t let that go dormant and every 18 months reach out to the CPA. I think there are things that you can do on a quarterly or at least twice a year basis to reach out and touch these folks so that they recall, oh yes, Inspired Financial, that is that amazing firm that does such great work with my clients and other women in transition.

Now if this is a center of influence that you met at a networking event or know less intimately, less formally, then there are still things that you can do. Our firm has made a pretty significant commitment to a digital presence, and we actually blog twice a month on various topics, some technical, some more lifestyle, and once a month we will send out a blog digest that includes little summaries of these blogs, but also a little bit about what’s going on in the office, and also, what we’re doing as far as our professional outreach. That’ll be things like, oh, Mark is speaking at this conference. Evelyn is giving this presentation to this women’s group. Or, we were featured in this article or look at this video that was prepared about our firm. And that is a great way to keep you top of mind for centers of influence.

I know a lot of planners get totally overwhelmed at the idea of doing digital marketing or blogging, but the encouragement I would have is, first of all, you don’t have to go it alone. There are amazing professionals who can help you create a cohesive strategy and implement it in a manner that doesn’t completely absorb your life, because I know you have a business to run, clients to serve, and oh yeah, a personal life, as well. But the more ominous encouragement is going to be that train is pretty much out of the station and you must be on board or you’re going to be left behind. You are deluding yourself, Mr. Planner or Ms. Planner, if you don’t think that your prospective clients aren’t looking for that kind of information, and nobody’s going to hire you because you’ve got a blog or not, but it’s a data point, it’s a touchpoint in their journey to selecting their financial planner, and you need to make sure you’ve got that data point or touchpoint available for them.

Steve Wershing:
That’s a great point. Given where things have gone, I would actually disagree that people would not hire you because you do or do not have a blog. I don’t think that someone would look at your blog and say, “Where do I find this person, I’m going to hire them right now.” However, if you don’t have current content and consistently posted content on your site, I think that as people do their due diligence and look at different advisors they see one that’s just got a stale website that hasn’t been updated even in a few months, they just keep moving on to the next one. While your blog cannot get clients for you, the absence of one can lose clients for you.

Evelyn Zohlen:
Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that this is an ongoing process. I know we’re nearing the end of our time, but I want to get one more plug in on this that this doesn’t have to be a one and done final answer, all at once, kind of approach. Even for us, and I feel like we’re a little bit ahead of the pack as far as a niche and our marketing efforts toward this niche, particularly on the digital front, but this is a constantly evolving effort.

Let me share an example of that, is that right now our blogs and blog digest are kind of universal. They’re intended for a very broad audience, clients, prospects and centers of influence alike. And we are in the process of doing a little bit of segmentation around that and we’ll be doing some COI-specific blogs, and we will be carving out our centers of influence into separate groups, and we’re trying to determine how crazy do we go with this. Do we carve out our CPAs? Do we carve out our divorce attorneys, our estate attorneys, etc.? We haven’t decided how targeted we’re going to go with this, but we are going to start creating content specifically for our centers of influence, to demonstrate to them not only how we care about relationship and we focus on this niche at the highest level, but to demonstrate our technical expertise as well, and enhance their technical expertise. It demonstrates we’re experts, we’re here to stay, and we’re good collaborative partners. It’s the win, win, win from a center of influences perspective.

Steve Wershing:
That’s a fascinating idea, and I think that is really current thinking. I think that’s great. Can we get really granular for just a second, because I know we need to wrap up now, but what blogging platform do you use?

Evelyn Zohlen:
We use, it’s run through our website, actually, and we’re using WordPress, is I guess the software that we’re using for that. You hear me hesitating because I was thinking, we use Nate, that’s who I’m using.

Steve Wershing:
Well right, there’s a lesson right there, is this is how you don’t let it eat your whole life, is you delegate and you have other people do that. And then, do those posts get distributed by email once you put them up on WordPress?

Evelyn Zohlen:
Absolutely. For those who have subscribed to our feed, they get it that way, and then once a month, that blog digest that I described to you, we send to our clients, referrals, COIs via MailChimp, is the service we’re using for that. But you landed on something, which is that while I’m all for this and I embrace it, this is not my area of expertise and I’m a firm believer in outsourcing those things that are not my core competency. It’s worth every penny to pay somebody else to be the expert so that I don’t have to figure it out or make a big mistake and have something go that I really didn’t want to go. So, we have an outstanding partner that helps us make sure things get posted, and get released to our COIs, prospects and clients on a timely basis.

Steve Wershing:
That’s great. And I just picked something up that’s interesting. So, not all your blog posts go out by email, just the summaries?

Evelyn Zohlen:
Just the blog digest monthly. That’s right. And that’s by choice because we want to be welcome, and our open rate is over 50%. We have a very high open rate, and that’s heart-warming, I feel like part of that is because we do have good content, but I’ve got to believe that part of it is because we don’t pile it into their email. They get emails from so many other sources, and I want ours to be welcome, and so we’re careful with how much quantity we send to them.

Steve Wershing:
Excellent point. Well, Evelyn, we are out of time, and I could spend lots more time speaking with you and I appreciate how generous you’ve been in spending so much time with us. Thank you so much for joining us, and like the name of your firm, you’re an inspiration to us and all of your thinking and how you’ve crafted this for your clients. And thanks so much for joining us on the podcast.

Evelyn Zohlen:
Absolutely, it’s been a pleasure. Thanks, Steve and Julie, and I hope to come back sometime.

Julie Littlechild:
Hi. It’s Julie again. It was great to have you with us on Becoming Referable. If you like what you’ve been hearing, please do us a favor and rate us on iTunes. It really does help. You can get all the links, show notes and other tidbits at BecomingReferable.com. You can also get our free report, Three Referral Myths That Limit Your Growth, and connect with our blogs and other resources. Thanks so much for joining us.