Participants:
Steve Wershing
Julie Littlechild
David Finley
Julie Littlechild: Now, I think we can all agree that one of the big challenges for advisors, certainly the ones that we talk to, is how to engage with clients when they can’t be face to face. And that’s the issue that we tackle with David. We focus in particular on how advisors can deliver truly unique and meaningful content, and some very cool experiences, but in particular, how all of that can be done digitally, in the current environment. And with that, let’s get straight to the conversation with David. Well David, welcome to Becoming Referable, so thrilled to have you here. Steve Wershing: Dave Finley: Julie Littlechild: Dave Finley: So for the past 24 months, I’ve been working on a new project, which we’re going to I’m sure talk a little bit about, but it’s really a relationship builder for wealth advisors. And that’s another way of saying it more technically, is it’s a digital engagement and loyalty platform and tool. And the idea here is to give advisors a way and a means to broaden the wealth experience that they’re providing their clients. And we take kind of a content approach, and we embrace the theme of living with wealth, so the topics are about live enrichment and lifestyle, and it really is, at the end of the day, giving advisors a way to distinguish and differentiate themselves. Julie Littlechild: Dave Finley: Julie Littlechild: Steve Wershing: Dave Finley: Steve Wershing: Dave Finley: Dave Finley: Julie Littlechild: Dave Finley: Julie Littlechild: Dave Finley: Julie Littlechild: Dave Finley: So that’s kind of the path we’ve taken, and I know just kind of that reference of 18 months ago, we were very much like that word luxury lifestyle popped up a lot. And while it’s still part of living with wealth, not withstanding what we’re all going through today with COVID, it was clear to us that what really mattered was life enrichment. And that natural extension of a conversation an advisor has with a client and helping to support that. Julie Littlechild: Dave Finley: So that was very much driven by advisors. And kind of highlighting that for us. Steve Wershing: Dave Finley: Steve Wershing: Dave Finley: And I’ll give you a couple of examples. So we’ve got a number of … In our health and wellness category, we have a number of nutritionists that are part of our partnerships. And they all have a difference perspective or a different approach, but one of them prior to the COVID lockdown was hosting events in the Toronto area at their house. So this is a nutritionist in their own kitchen, where 10 to 20 members of our platform and their advisors are coming and kind of learning live, right? This is how I buy. Let’s say it was gut health. This is how I buy, this is how we make. And that type of real life experience, and again this is pre-COVID, where you’re face to face and you’re getting to kind of … It’s not just an article that you’re reading. So that’s one example on a very kind of small scale. Another example is a little bit more on the luxury lifestyle, but one of our partners is BMW. And BMW has created a program for us called BMW Preferred. And what that gives all of those that are interested in cars, again, underlining the experience here, is access to an always on fleet of their cars for a period of three to four months. So not a test drive for 20 minutes, or not a test drive for a weekend. Where they can call in and have a car delivered to their driveway, and they can keep it for up to two weeks, and literally experience that car. And then use that. And they’re also, from the brand’s perspective, or our partner’s perspective, they’re really getting to show themselves, right, they’re really getting to show the experience of, in this case, being a BMW customer. It’s a beautiful car, and it runs well, but it’s more than that. And for Bonnie and her business with the wellness, it’s very much about seeing Bonnie live. I won’t say you’re in the studio, but you’re getting to experience it firsthand. And- Steve Wershing: Dave Finley: Steve Wershing: Dave Finley: Steve Wershing: Dave Finley: And then on the other side, so the connection is digital. So it’s a digital experience, but we’re bringing both digital and let’s say real life things together. And then on the other side, we’re going out and identifying both kind of global partners and even local or regional partners in all these different categories that matter most. And all of these categories have nothing to do with the actual money, they’re all life categories. So it’s really a way for … Going back to the beginning of our discussion, like to broaden that conversation, right? So if it turns out you’ve personally gifted this to three or four of your clients who are very, very motivated by health and wellness and nutrition, they’re going to get a ongoing, weekly kind of inventory, let’s call it, of content and experiences related to that. So that’s kind of the high level description. But it’s broad, given the categories that we have. Julie Littlechild: Dave Finley: But after that, you can decide that I’m going to just let my clients interact with this platform, and I’ll make sure … I’m going to make sure that they’re enjoying it, and they’re getting value out of it. And then the other path, which is clearly more of the people that have started with us, are those that are very active. So they are not only kind of getting started and getting outside their wheelhouse on this, let’s say, but they see the value. So they know that … I know my clients that are really health and wellness oriented, we all should be, but let’s just say that are particularly fond of health and wellness, that they’re getting active in that too as an advisor. So they’re wanting to go to the events, they’re wanting to meet the partners. Cleveland Clinic is one of our big health and wellness partners, and they’re doing amazing things with us. And I have advisors that want to be dialoguing with Cleveland Clinic, independent of their clients, just to learn more about how they can maybe bring a better understanding of health and wellness into their practice. Steve Wershing: Dave Finley: And that created the framework where we designed our whole content and experience framework. And you can envision as we go forward, we’re going to use real data from people that are actually using our platform, that will be able to tell us where we should pay special attention to. But just to kind of close out that thought, most of the buckets, or the categories, you wouldn’t be surprised by. Like they would be almost obvious and say well, you went through this whole exercise of the research, but it was really when you dug deeper. And another thing kind of attached to that is it also told us who they key influencers were. Whether they were media influencers, political influencers, in each of these various categories. So it helps us kind of then … One of the big pieces, aside from brands, we’ve got over 300 publishers where we’ve got licensing agreements to kind of repurpose their content. Well it gave us well, where were the influencers there. Like were people … For wine, were they reading Wine Spectator? Or were they not type of thing. So … I hope that answers your question. Julie Littlechild: Dave Finley: Julie Littlechild: Dave Finley: So the distinction is there are advisors doing this in a modified way, and they’re the ones that are actually the most interested in us, because they also understand how much lifting goes into pulling this off. But yeah, and from a category, like I think of the advisors that have taken this approach, to let’s say broaden the conversation, health and wellness is usually up there, family is usually up there. Sometimes philanthropy, although philanthropy is … In this day and age, it’s very much also tied into generally the investments. But they’re those topics that I categorized at the beginning as life enrichment as the priority. Steve Wershing: Dave Finley: Clearly, the idea here of thinking of taking that to the next step, which is like okay, yeah, if I look at the construct of a family office, there is something like this in every family office. It may be called something different, it may be called services, it may be called concierge, there’s a lot of different kind of definitions that are used. But family offices as advisors want to, again, extend that relationship, are very much doing something like this. But, at the end of the day today, so if I get into my okay, I’ve got to I’ll say convince you as to why, advisors ultimately buy in the end benefit. Like today, so if I put 10 advisors in front of us today and explain the program to them, the vast majority would be saying, “This is a perfect fit for client appreciation.” So like I’ve used the word engagement or we’ve used the word engagement, we’ve used the word loyalty, relationship building. Client appreciation is something that I think all advisors do. But this is like an ongoing client appreciation, and can be quite easily digested that way. So eight or nine out of 10 advisors would say, “This is a great way for me to thank my clients.” And it’s not a long way from what I do, because it is about living with wealth. And if there are going to be benefits that come along with experiences, and we have exclusive offers and things like that, that’s great. It’s also, as we’ve touched on, about that broader conversation. Because it’s co-branded, too. And I don’t think we would’ve gotten anywhere had we thought that we could kind of build of our own brand, and extend this to an advisor to pass it along. It’s really about putting the advisor front and center in the entire process. Which is if we can distinguish the advisor, differentiate them, even in a minor way with the market and the fierce competition, and overcrowding and all those other things, this is a way for an advisor to kind of stand out. So advisors are looking at it through multiple lenses, and I’m encouraging them to. So it also has an impact on where they are in their practice, are they looking to retain, are they looking to build, do they want to grow with an existing client. So that’s really … It does take an advisor some time to understand how to fit this in their practice. And that’s our job, to show them. But clearly if you think forward to the future of where advice is going, you can see where this is fitting in. Julie Littlechild: Dave Finley: Steve Wershing: Julie Littlechild: Dave Finley: And I’ll use an example of we’ve got some … And I can speak firsthand, we’ve got some wine partners that we’re involved with, and we were in the process of setting up multiple events, really social oriented, where advisors are bringing their clients to that are on the platform. And what happened with COVID was that yes, you had to be digital. But all of those companies, so all of those wine clubs that we’re associated with, they’re doing virtual tastings. And everybody … So I haven’t had a discussion with a brand or a partner that, again, is not thinking about how to get really, really creative. And the virtual tasting is actually almost a better experience to some extent. Because it’s in your home, you get it delivered, you get the whole tasting pad, and the bottles, and everything else that you need. And then you have the sommelier on a Zoom format, with 20 other people that are participating from their own homes. So again, the wine might seem like a … It is actually a great example, because it’s showing that people are … This moment is creating I’ll say a ton of innovation. And we’re going to keep a lot of this. People are going to want to get back to the in person, there’s no doubt about it, but when companies like BMW, as an example again, are doing virtual showrooms, so like one on one tours with people that want a virtual showroom tour, you can see that everybody that would not have been doing stuff like this is today. Julie Littlechild: Dave Finley: And then we actually created a tool within it, where clients can, at no charge or no addition, no additional costs in this case to the advisor, can share it. And build referrals, and I always use the backyard example of looking over the fence to the neighbor and saying, “I’ve got this great new service from my advisor, and it’s giving me all of these experiences, and benefits, and so on. And I’m allowed to share it.” Julie Littlechild: Dave Finley: Steve Wershing: Dave Finley: Steve Wershing: Dave Finley: Steve Wershing: Dave Finley: Steve Wershing: Dave Finley: Julie Littlechild: Steve Wershing: Dave Finley: Steve Wershing:
Welcome to Becoming Referable, the podcast that helps you become the kind of advisor people can’t help talking about. I’m Julie Littlechild, and today Steve and I are speaking with David Finley. David is the founder and CEO of Living Wealth Media, and someone I’ve had the pleasure of knowing for many years. We were really excited to chat with David because he’s doing something incredibly unique. And providing what he calls a co-branded, digital engagement platform. David has a history of innovation in the wealth management space, with a particular focus on truly effective marketing.
Yeah, welcome, David.
Well, thanks, Julie.
Well look, I have had the pleasure of knowing David for some time actually, so I know a lot about the various roles you’ve played and the great work that you’ve done, but do you mind if we just start with a quick introduction to yourself, and to the work that you do?
Yeah, no problem, Julie. Thanks for having me too, right off the bat. So I’ve been in the business for … the wealth management business for 28 plus years now, and really in the advisor client relationship side of things. So not so much the portfolio management, or the planning, or compliance, but really either building a practice through some really interesting marketing, and/or helping for the most part advisors doing that. So I’ve had corporate experience, a couple entrepreneurial stops along the way, but my passion has always been the relationship between the advisor and client, and I just underline relationship.
Well, maybe I can just sort of pick up on that, there’s a few streams there that I’d like to talk about. But you refer to this as a digital engagement platform I think were the words you used. So just at the highest level, what do you actually believe drives deeper engagement between advisors and their clients?
Yeah, it’s a million dollar question. I think-
If I had the answer to that we’d all be-
That’s right-
Yeah.
Is that what the cost of it is? There you go.
It’s funny, you go back and I look when I started in the business 28 years ago and I think that question was being asked then too.
Julie Littlechild:
Yeah.
But I take a little bit of a step back thinking to this, and I think that the first premise is, is it’s first really to me and to us about broadening, broadening or the breadth of engagement. I think engagement for the most part, and certainly in all my time in the business, has been quite narrowly focused. And I won’t go into the details, but we all know portfolio, portfolio, portfolio. And in terms of driving deeper engagement, I think the first step is to think about broadening it. So how do you broaden the conversations with clients that go beyond what maybe the traditional discussion has always been about. And that’s where you kind of enable yourself to go down pathways of developing deeper engagement or a deeper relationship.
So can you maybe just expand on what you mean by expanding the conversation? Like can you give some examples of that?
Yeah. For us, we named our business Living Wealth, and we did that for a reason. So if advisors traditionally today have focused on kind of the money side and the planning side related to the money, for us it was really about how do you live with wealth? So living wealth, or living with wealth, so what are all those questions that clients are asking I think more and more today, demographically driven, for the most part is how do I spend it, or how do I leave a legacy, or you go through a bunch of different ways. What about my health and wellness? Health and wealth are usually thought of us inextricably connected. So that to me is about broadening it, and think of every aspect of life. And we’ve kind of taken that approach. So I hope that answers your question.
Well, it does and it’s interesting, you make me think of some of the current research that we’ve done with investors, and I know you’ve done some research as well, that really highlights the connection between clients saying, “My advisor goes beyond planning and investment management and really looks at … ” So we can see statistically the impact that has.
Yeah. And we’re … The more conversations we’ve had, this project has been in development for 24 months, and I think Julie we might’ve talked 18 months ago about it, and-
Yeah.
We had a lot of stops and starts in its design. And what we really concluded, when you talk about all these other topics about broadening the conversation, was particularly when it got to what we call life enrichment. So all those really, really important things in like that I think advisors for the most part are having conversations from time to time today. And if we could allow a platform that would make it … maybe make it a little bit more tangible, than just clients asking about their kids’ schools and things like that.
So that’s interesting, so did you feel that there’s been a shift away from the conversation about luxury, or that you just found a better way to describe what clients were really feeling and what they needed?
Yeah, a little bit of both. I think the luxury lifestyle to me has always been about aspiration in our context. So if you can show a beautiful house, you can show a beautiful car, or whatever it might be, you typically find that type of positioning, let’s call it, in a lot of wealth management marketing, let’s just say. But as it related to life enrichment, it was really advisors who were looking at our proposition and the type of content and experiences we were proposing, and saying, “Well, I’d really like you to help support us with elder care.” And how to look after families, and particularly when we talk of Gen X and Boomers, looking after their parents who are now at that stage. And it went way beyond kind of what the protocol and steps would be to a lot of emotional training, and thinking about the experience of our parents leaving their home of 40 or 50 years.
So David, you’re talking about experiences and bringing some of those experiences into the conversation between the client and the advisor, can you talk a little bit more about what kinds of experiences you’re talking about how you can facilitate clients-
Yeah.
What you can do for clients as they have those experiences.
Yeah, I mean, experiences is a big word now, and an often used word. And I actually think that it’s quite universal. So I’ll give you our take on it. When we look to products and services, things we need now as consumers, and living with wealth as consumers, we’re very much wanting to move beyond the tell me about it to show me. And I think of show me as I want to see it, I want to feel it, I want to … To use the car analogy, I want to test drive it for sure before I buy. But I think across almost all services, so when we think of experiences, the question for us was is how could we not only kind of create interesting, informative information, because I think that might’ve been kind of a little too bland, to actually bring experiences that advisors could then let their clients literally experience.
So-
You can do that in almost every category, so …
So I think I’m gradually understanding what you’re talking about-
Yeah.
I apologize if I’m a little dense, but so walk me through a little bit about how this is presented. It sounds like the advisor who joins your program could then talk with their clients, they might have a group of clients who are interested in gut health, for example, I’ll pick one that’s close to me, ask my wife about me and the kimchi at home. Is that they might say, “We’ve arranged for a cooking class with this chef who’s all about this kind of … ” And so they would be organizing a client event that you would arrange the resources for, is that … Am I getting that sort of right?
Yeah, I mean, we’re literally turnkey on the whole thing. So if you think of it as we’re bringing together, so we partner with an advisor who then invites or gifts what we call membership onto our platform, and the platform’s co-branded so it’s very much all about the advisor. And they’re going to decide whether, for the most part, advisors are doing it with clients, but some cases prospects and COIs, but they’re inviting them on. And as those clients sign up on this co-branded platform, the clients are identifying their interests. They’re saying, “These are things that are important to us,” and that’s obviously helping us cater to the type of things we should bring to the table.
And David, if you think about advisors who aren’t on your platform, or probably individually can’t bring to bear the resources of a BMW test drive and such, I mean, that’s obviously the power of what you guys create, how do you think they should dip their toe in the water and maybe start thinking about experiences at the individual advisor level?
Yeah. That’s a good question, and I think … I can speak from our early experience. Clearly, the advisors that think about this first are those that have already made the leap that they’re in the relationship building business first. And let’s call it the portfolio building business equally or secondarily. So part of this, and I’m kind of giving you a bit of a broader perspective, is that the advisors, there’s a group of advisors that are building or attempting to build more of a family office model. And something like this is a natural fit, so it’s like, okay, I’m going to put this into my practice, and then from there, they’re able to … We’re turnkey, and that’s a really important word in our relationship development with advisors, is that there are really two paths you can then take that, is if you see this is a fit in terms of where you want to go with your practice, and you think the future value of advice is going to be more than the portfolio, you’ve kind of checked those boxes. And then you really can take two paths with us, you can go down a road that is we have you up in 30 minutes and you’re literally handing the keys over to us, and your client … You’re going to build your profile, and you’re going to be co-branded, and you’re going to be able to send the invitations to those that you want to.
You’ve mentioned a couple of different kinds of experiences, and you’ve done some research with investors about what kinds of experiences and topics resonate with them, can you share with us a little bit of what you discovered in that process?
Yeah, we did a big study I think in the third month of our design, with Google Research. So the outfit out of Montreal, their Canadian research group of Montreal, where we did a big study on what was most important in life, in this context in Canada, to the affluents. And we got … It’s a 138 page study, a lot of it wouldn’t surprise you, but we did get what we would call categories, like the 12 to 18, I think there were 18 I’ll say in brackets, buckets of life that people kind of saw their … My home, my health, my family, my car, my food, my entertainment, like those are … And then that research, where we saw the great, great value is how deep it dove. So you take a topic like health and wellness, and that’s really broad, and what it ended up kind of telling us in order of sequence is it prioritized the subcategories. So it created a framework for us to, using real data and relevant data, because it was driven by Google, it really enabled us to make sure that we were not guessing at what was mattering most to people.
And let me ask you, so I’d like to think about advisors who just don’t have access to a platform like yours. If you were an advisor, and you didn’t exist as a company-
Yeah.
But knowing what you know about those topics and about the research, where would you start? Do you have any thoughts on, or ideas for an advisor who just wants to cut through the noise, wants to do something a little different, but needs to do it themselves.
Yeah. I mean, there are a very, very short list of advisors that do a very kind of modified version, right. I can even think of one of our advisor partners, or advisor clients, who made a conscious decision that they were going to focus on what was actually some of their passions, but certainly family. So family was going to be a category, let’s call it. So they picked two or three things and family then could be broken down to parenting, it could be broken down to elder care. But they made a conscious decision that family was a big part of their value proposition, most of their clients were in brackets families. So they then went out and added, so they picked the categories that they felt their clients would be most interested in, they went out and identified partners that they could use for everything from content, and webinars, and things like that, right on through to partners that might be able to actually supply some services.
It’s interesting how you’re exploring this, and certainly it’s important to understand what your clients are most interested in. I can envision many advisors saying, “Yeah, my clients are interested in health and wellness, my clients are interested in things that really are not at all financial topics. But that’s really … They look to us for financial advice, and that’s what our expertise is, and this is like way outside of our role with the client.” As well as being outside of our wheelhouse, understanding what we do. So how would you respond to an advisor who made that comment after hearing what you guys can do for them?
Yeah, in two ways. I get it a lot. So I think a lot of it has to do, too, stepping back for a second, where the definition of the value of advice. So the first step, and I do say this a lot, the first step is really identifying advisors that are refining or redefining the value proposition that they want to deliver. And it’s not a big percentage of the total group at this stage. So that’s kind of the backdrop. It’s almost like we’re looking for the fit with advisors today as much as we’re looking to convince them to be involved. So that would be the first thing I would say.
I’m interested in your perspective just over the last several months, given what everyone is experiencing. I’ve seen not a lot, but like you say, a handful of advisors doing some really creative things. Like not only delivering digitally, which you kind of have to do right now.
Yeah.
Right.
But trying to think about something that cuts through the noise. So like the health and wellness, or discussion groups, or I talked to one advisor recently who’s bringing older clients who are widowed together, because they’re often living on their own now, and the sense of community. What are you seeing that is the hallmark of a great experience or event right now?
Oh, well, connection is key. So anything that is connecting people, that’s a real broad response, but connection is definitely key. Again, I’ll use examples, we’re … There isn’t a company or an idea out there that isn’t having the same let’s call it discussion about the question you’ve just asked. So we’re talking about advisors, and how they can reach out and put something forward that is different and is engaging and so on. The reality is, is so everyone else.
Yeah, I think you’re right. And I think … You’ve said connection, and I think it’s important to really highlight, because there’s a big difference between delivering a webinar, which can have great content and I know a lot of advisors are doing that, but it’s a one way conversation versus seeking those ways to create connection. And I do think it’s forced people to be more creative. And you’re right, I think some of this will go forward. So I think that’s a great example. We’re about becoming referable of course, so how do you think this can impact an advisor’s referability?
Great question. When we first started, we were very much thinking about retention, and I know referability and referrals, they actually do start with great fans and great clients that are very, very happy with the service. But we didn’t really think about where this could go with that in the mind. And I would say it was within three to six months of our design phase back in 2018, where it became clear that advisors were telling us this would be a great platform to create a referral privilege that if I gifted this to one of my clients and they got this experience and it showed my value, it wasn’t intrusive, it wasn’t asking people to talk about their money yet. But if they could then share that, and I think it first started with the idea about the intergenerational issues. So I’m going to gift this to my clients and let them in, I would really like their family to also be able to experience it and have their own memberships. So that referral within family is where we started.
Right.
That’s not a difficult thing to do. It’s a very different thing than saying, “You need to talk to Jim because Jim’s great, and bring your … Go talk to Jim and bring your money over.” That’s a critical part of growing a practice. But this is just another way of taking the idea that’s a little softer, less intrusive, and using it. And again, that was definitely driven by advisors, seeing that it had more utility than we were originally thinking about.
Interesting, so you’re talking about an advisor could offer this to clients and then it opened … Invite the clients to invite their friends in as a way of getting to meet the advisor. What about centers of influence, could you bring those folks along as well to events?
Yeah, we … Well, think of it too as yes, when it comes to an event, there’s an allocation. So what I mean by that is that when a client is invited to an event, they may have … They may be able to kind of download eight tickets, let’s say. There are no controls that we and/or the advisor put on to who those people are. So we’re giving the client eight tickets, because that’s-
Oh, I see, okay.
The value. So that’s one side of it. The other side is, is that we don’t put any limitations on the advisor for how they … or sorry, who they want to distribute this to. So we have advisors that buy … Because advisors actually pre-buy the memberships. And we have advisors that have strictly bought them for centers of influence. So they’re not even thinking today of using this with their clients. They’re thinking about using it as a partner, a prospect of COI building to show the accountant or lawyer in this case that hey, I’m doing these kind of things. My value proposition is broadening. And I want you to be able to experience some of the things that I’m being able to pass along. Beyond kind of my wealth acumen and so on. So that’s been … Again, most advisors today will use it for clients. But we let them decide.
Interesting.
For us it’s their tool.
Interesting. Interesting. Well, David, if advisors wanted to find out more about how these programs work, and about … and to find out more about you and the company, where can they track you down?
Yeah, the best and easiest way is our web … I’m going to call it more of a webpage, it’s LivingWealth.ca. And on that there is multiple … I mean, there’s certainly my bio and the high level explanation of the company and what we’re doing, but it also, there’s a button to request a demo that I do, it’s an intro demo, it’s 30 minutes, it’s on Zoom, or Webex, one of those platforms, and I literally walk through and show the product live and how people are experiencing it. And I think something like this, because it is new, and it’s a new kind of approach, that it’s really important to see it. And as I said, my personal and contact information like in terms of phone and email is all on that site.
Perfect.
Well David, that fascinating new idea on how to increase value to clients, and so thanks so very much for coming on and telling us a little bit about it today.
Well, great, thank you very much, thank you both. And it was a real pleasure and honor to be here, too.
Hey folks, Steve again. Thanks for joining us on Becoming Referable. If you like what you’ve been hearing, please do us a favor and rate us on iTunes. It really helps. You can get all the links, show notes, and other tidbits from these episodes at BecomingReferable.com. You can also get our free report, Three Referral Myths That Limit Your Growth, and connect with our blogs and other resources. So until next time, so long.